The End The End The End Just in case you don't remember Let me jog your memory In a church they called the Waco compound Back in April 93 Seventeen little children All so helpless and so small Died a senseless death of gas and flames How many names can you recall? Seventeen little children Don't it make you wonder why? Seventeen little children How could they deserve to die? Baby we should stop and ask ourselves We become so bright Seventeen little children Find me open up your mind How could you sleep at night The crazy news Tell me what you feel like me I'll stay in sleep You're chilling again Bought out and perish in the flames Tell me again you're dying in the night Accept your offering to die How can you stand for life Over now When you are passing through your cries Suddenly you're chilling again Of the wind and so small Something's been chilling again How many names can you recall? Baby we should stop and ask ourselves We become so bright If you are watching Look what we've been Who's really alive Only open up your mind By theNET said The fresh cottonmarkt Only God will pray with me You know, in the six, I know what's most important What was ever one thing that I've ever seen Yesterday I told my key things Got my prescription so they've had When I see the music we are Closed and accomplished to be quiet So I'm free and chill and I want you What is ever one thing that I want you to find Everything we'll chill and regret I'll be lazy to die Maybe we'll just stop and let go to the house But we keep up so blind Everything we'll chill and regret Don't open up your mind Open up your mind Ladies and gentlemen, seventeen children Beneath the age of thirteen years old Died in the Waco massacre Were murdered, burned, alive These are their names The first one's name is unknown Chenille, one year Dayland, four years Pages, two years Bobby, one year Cyrus, eight years Star, six years Star, six years Serenity, four years Chica and little one Twins, one year old Crystal, two years Isaiah, four years Joseph, seven years Startle, one year Hollywood, two years Mayanna, two years Mayanna, two years And Melissa, three years Aside from the seventeen Children beneath the age Thirteen years There were two pregnant Mothers who were also Burned alive And those two mothers Were Ayesha Summers And Nicole Little Two unborn Unnamed children Were living Living within their womb Now Folks I'm not known for my Political correctness But I want you to understand The enormity of the crime That was perpetrated in Waco, Texas And that's why I asked Carl Klang personally To write a song About what happened in Waco, Texas And the song that you heard Was written and performed By Carl Klang And will be made available At a later date But not right now And the reason that I read These names off to you Was to bring it home to you What really happened down there Now bear in mind That all of those Who died in Waco, Texas In the church known as Branch Davidian Were entitled to equal right Under the law And to be judged by a jury Of their peers None of them Had committed any crimes Whatsoever This was in fact A battle In the war A spiritual war Between good and evil The evil forces are in charge In charge of the bureaucracy Of our great nation They are destroying us From within And to be judged For all the years That you thought That the Soviet Union Or Russia Was the enemy Of the United States Of America Ladies and gentlemen That was a ruse The real enemy Is within Like a cancer Destroys And eats At the body Tonight We're going to be talking Again with Linda Thompson About what she has learned From those who survived The Waco massacre Whom she has Talked with And we're going to learn And talk about A few other things Also Linda, I'd like to Welcome you once again To the hour of the time Everyone out there Is waiting to Hear what we have to say Tonight Probably on the edge Of their chair With pins and needles Going up and down their spine Tonight Talk about The survivors Of the massacre The Waco massacre The survivors of the congregation Of the church That we all know As Branch Davidian And since you've had An opportunity to talk To most Not all But most Of these survivors We're going to try To get their story Through you But as you've told me Off the mic Off the air They have not And will not Go into Particular details When pressed for those details For a specific reason And first I'd like you to tell us Just how far they will go In talking about Their experiences Well it kind of depends on who You're talking to Because some of them Obviously are going to tell you More details than others Because some of them are just Material witnesses And others are charged with Very serious Federal felony offenses And anything they say Can come back to Haunt them in court Even a true statement You can make a true statement And I know a good attorney Can take that true statement And if you vary it by so much as one word In court later They can say Well you said this story One way this time And another way this time Didn't you But now if you said Exactly the same Both times Then that same attorney Would claim that you had rehearsed it So making any kind of statement Can come back to haunt you And can be a bad thing When you're facing criminal penalties So in that sense I wouldn't want to do anything To jeopardize their criminal prosecution Sure And that's the reason Why they don't want to be too specific Is because this Whatever they say Could be turned around And slapped They could be slapped in the face With their own words in court Exactly Now lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers And lawyers Now lawyers And attorneys And law schools Might call someone Who did that a good attorney But I certainly Would not call that person A very good Or very truthful human being Because they're not trying To get at the truth They're just simply Trying to hang somebody Aren't they? That's exactly right What takes good people And turns them into That kind of a person? Does that process Happen in law school? I'm trying to think That some of the ones I've run into That are snakes like that It's an innate trait It's just something That's in them Because you don't see it In every attorney You see it more In attorneys That are on one Particular side of the fence Than the other They just seem to be Lacking in any humanity Or compassion And ethics come from a book You know If it's not written down And it's not a rule Then it must not be too bad You know That's the mentality Law school doesn't really Teach it to you Law school teaches you To be a little Oh Abstract Or a little removed And less emotional And not to be involved With what you're trying to analyze But it certainly doesn't remove Your ability to have a morality Or to have a heart Or a conscience Sure And justice system Is supposed to mean justice And it's supposed to have something To do with the truth Let's get to the survivors Of the Waco massacre And Linda I want you to make sure That you distinguish Whenever you're talking About these people Between people who came out Before the fire Who were in a part of the siege But came out actually Before the fire And the people who actually Survived the fire I think their story Is going to You know You know You know You know You know You know Each of their stories Are going to be different And I think that distinction Is important Can you tell us Who How many of the survivors Have you talked to Both that came out Before the fire And actually survived the fire Were there when It was burned How many that actually Survived the fire Well how many In both categories How many overall Of these people Who survived this siege And fire Have you been able To talk to personally I don't think I've ever counted it up Let me Give me a second And I'll see if I can Well give us a ballpark figure It doesn't have to be Absolutely right on the money Somewhere around a dozen So you've talked to Around 12 people Who were either In there during the siege And came out before the fire Or have actually Were actually people Who were there When the building was burned And survived the fire Right And of the people I've talked to That survived the fire I think I've only talked to Two Maybe three Of those people That actually came out After the fire Okay Okay So let's get Into the siege portion And Can you tell us What you've learned From these people And wherever you can Without jeopardizing them Tell us who Has told you this Can you tell us The truth Of what happened On specifically February the 28th And then the period Following on up to The final day 51 Okay There were I've talked to Several people That were there You know The initial day And one of the people Was at the doorway That the ATF Claims to have approached And The story that he tells And the story That other people relate Was also told to them By David Koresh And the people That were at the door Is that They Saw the ATF coming And David opened the door And with his hands up He said Wait let's talk about this There's women and children In here And as soon as he did They began firing at him And David Slammed the door shut Excuse me Just a minute Was he Was he actually Was he actually hit When this happened I had to cough I'm sorry That's okay He slammed the door shut Terry Jones was hit then He was shot Before the door was shut And he was hit And mortally wounded And everyone Said that they heard him Screaming for a long time In absolute agony From his wounds This was Perry Jones at the door Where was he hit? In his side In his abdomen That's one of the most Painful wounds That anyone could Possibly suffer Now he is One of the people Who were killed That if you'll remember A couple of weeks ago This so-called Coroner came out With a new autopsy Result Saying that Three of the people That had been killed The day of the siege One of them Had a gunshot wound Through his mouth Or through his mouth Like he shot himself Well the family No one believes This story about Perry None of the Branch Davidians None of the family Nobody believes that And So they're saying That he was shot In the head On the 28th? Yeah through his mouth And the interesting thing Is that a man I'm in contact with Called the coroner After the story came out He called Perwani's office And Perwani told him Well actually He needed to check With the local guy The local coroner In Waco I think his name is Call him And the man Did call him And learned That not only Had he not Examined the body At all All he had done Was put a tag on it So I don't know Where the story With the bullet wound To the head Came from But both of the Coroners are denying Having made that Examination Or that finding So the coroner Absolutely denies That there was Any bullet hole In his head No he denies That he was the one That said that Or did the examination Well what do they say About a bullet wound Through the mouth To the head They each point a finger At the other And say the other one Examined the body And they don't know So in other words Somebody's concocted The story Or they have the wrong body Well it sounds to me That even if the story Was concocted or not That the coroners Are playing CYA Or cover your ass With each other And will not own up To what really happened Is that correct? And the other interesting Thing is this same Coroner That the friend I'm relating Talked to Said that the body Was well preserved Now you've got to realize This is a body That they buried Underground That was underground For two months In pretty warm weather How could that body Be well preserved? Well I don't know You're the wrong person Because I'm not an expert In any of that But your point Is well taken We think they've probably Got the wrong body Or you know Somebody's not being Very straight On this whole story Well anyway Back to the day of the door Well to me If the coroners Won't come out And straighten this out And state exactly Whose body it is And what shape was it in And whether or not There was a bullet wound Through the mouth And who reported this Then they're just A couple of cowards Who are not being truthful With the American public And they're just Coving for their own career Thinking that if they Tell the truth Something's going to happen To them Is that correct? Well yeah This Pirani was picked For his incompetence I believe Because he's been sued A number of times Once for leaving a body On the table For an hour and a half Before realizing The person was still alive Another time He lost the larynx Of a woman In an investigation Of a strangulation And the larynx Is a key piece of evidence Because if you're strangled The larynx is in your throat And that should be crushed Well he lost the larynx And said she died Of natural causes Until the family Kicked up a stink about it These are all stories That were run in Texas papers While I was down there I have copies of those papers With those stories In them that we picked up While we were in Waco The best I can tell There's been at least six Of these types of charges And another one Was a little baby That drowned in the bathtub Who ostensibly Shouldn't have any marks On his body at all The autopsy was done so poorly The family had to have A closed casket funeral Now this is the fellow That they picked To do the autopsies On one of the most serious crimes In the history of this country And then the other fellows That are coroners For the local county Coroners do not have To be doctors Or anything else They're just elected officials So what do they know? You know they don't know What they're looking at They probably don't even Know the body parts So you know We've got the blind Leading the blind On these autopsies But anyway Back to the first day Everyone that I have talked to Has said pretty much The exact same thing That David opened the door Had his hands up And some of us Talk about this The ATF began firing And throwing the concussion Grenades and so forth Perry Jones was hit Perry Jones screamed And was in agony You could hear him Apparently throughout the house And that was a huge house And David was later hit As he was going upstairs Through to the tower He got caught in a crossfire From or caught in a shot By the ATF shooting Through the walls From outside And he was hitting the side And let me think Who else was shot I can't remember who else They said was shot In that initial round But at that point None of the Branch Davidians Were shooting But now at that point They had every reason In the world And every legal right To return fire Absolutely And there's actually A Texas code Or a Texas law That you can shoot Even a police officer If the police officer Uses unreasonable force In making an arrest Against you Now ATFs are not Police officers Which is another thing For people to remember They're not police officers They're essentially Tax enforcement agents And it doesn't really matter Because the unwritten law Of honorable men And ethics says That if you raise Your hands and say Wait let's talk about this There's women and children In here And you're fired upon That you have a right To defend yourself At that point No matter what Anybody says Absolutely You've got a right Of self-defense But what's even more What makes it stronger In Texas is They've got Texas penal code Subchapter C Article 9.31 The use of force To resist an arrest Or search Is justified If Before the actor Offers any resistance The peace officer Uses Or attempts to use More force than necessary To make Greater force than necessary To make the arrest And when and to the degree The actor reasonably believes The force is immediately necessary To protect himself Against the peace officer Use or attempt to use Of greater force than necessary Well they certainly use Greater force than necessary When they throw Concussion grenades at the door The battle plan And it was a military Battle plan That they had rehearsed For months Required that this entire Team of eight guys Be on the roof Within seven seconds And three guys Be in a bedroom Inside a bedroom window That they were going to Have to first break out And get into this window Within 22 seconds Within They didn't ever Even attempt A peaceful service Of this warrant There was no question If they already had A battle plan laid That within 22 seconds These guys are going to Go up on the roof And in the window Throwing grenades The whole way That's a military assault That's not reasonable Use of any kind of Absolutely right And they weren't trying To serve a warrant They were trying to Get in there And kill those people Weren't they? Absolutely And that's exactly What they thought Was going to happen From the beginning Was the part of this Business with the Newspapers Warning at them Ahead of time And all the stories And the churning up Of all the Nasty allegations And so forth Was precisely To be sure That the Branch Davidians Would shoot back They wanted the Branch Davidians To shoot back So they would have An excuse to massacre them And the screw up Was not that They were waiting And ready for them The screw up was That the guys Didn't shoot back Like they expected them to They expected them to shoot back And then they'd be able To slaughter them all But they didn't And then what I have learned Is that after the guys Got in the upstairs bedroom The ATS agents They threw grenades And made explosion sounds The people downstairs Heard that And David sent one of the fellas To get some guns But he had even told them Don't shoot at anybody Don't shoot to kill anybody Shoot at their feet And one guy did get the gun And was coming through the hallway And it happened to be the hallway Where some of these agents were He is the person That shoots out the wall On our videocase That you can see The bullets coming out the wall And obviously None of those bullets Hits anybody Except the one that catches The guy on the back of the helmet He's not even hurt By that shot So But none of the other bullets Hits anybody Well we don't know that If he was really the one That was shooting We don't really even know that either But if he was the one That was shooting And if he did hit somebody Those bullets may have been stopped And may not have come out the wall But you can see them Coming out the wall They aren't hitting anyone You know As they come out the wall There's no one there to hit You know And those are the only bullets In any of the footage That I've found That Well wait a minute now Linda We know that three agents Went in that room How do we know There was no one to hit The direction from where he's shooting If you look He's shooting on the far left of the room Out the wall Well we don't know where the agents are We can't see them in that room Are you suggesting That they would have come through the agents First there's no blood Coming out with the bullets Well I have no idea But I fought in a war in Vietnam And there doesn't necessarily Have to be any blood Coming out the wall Through the With the bullets And if the bullets Indeed hit someone First They may not have even Gone through that person And come out the wall Depends upon what type of weapon This guy was firing And what kind of rounds He was firing Okay you can hear A corresponding shot For each hole That's correct And based upon that It would be a good summation To presume that no one Is hit by him Now we're doing good radio Because that's what I was Trying to get you to say Because I don't want anybody Out there criticizing What we're putting out here Alright how's that That's good We've had it a while And we've basically Come to the conclusion In other words Where every sound Of every shot that's fired We can see a corresponding Hole in that wall Right That's exactly what I was trying to get at And he seems to be Trying to scare You know whoever's outside While at the same time Not trying to hit him Anyway that And those are the only Of all the footage That we've got That's the only indication We have that anyone Was shooting back at them As that agent Rolls off the roof Or rolls over on the roof And then goes down the ladder You do see a shot Come up out of the roof Well I've examined that tape It doesn't necessarily Come out of the roof From below It could have been Fired from outside At a diagonal And hit the tile And caused it to fly up Like that We don't know From which way The bullet came But a bullet Comes from somewhere And knocks a tile Off the roof Yeah And then there is Another bullet That comes from Almost directly overhead Which has to be Coming from one Of the helicopters It goes through The roof ledge And then down To the bottom edge Of the house That's correct And that could have Been the source For the first bullet That knocked a tile Off the roof We don't know that Now an interesting thing Is that some of the Vehicles that were out There that the ATF Was shooting from Behind in the You know in our video You can see the agents All behind cars Shooting randomly Everything that they've got Those vehicles Have bullet holes That are straight up And down Where do you think Those came from? Well obviously They had to come From helicopters Exactly And two of the women That came out With the children Both have said That the helicopters Fired on the roof Fired into the Second story We also know That one of the lawyers Who went into The building To talk with David Koresh When he came out Said that there were Holes in the roof Where the helicopters Had fired down Into the building That's right And there's no way These vehicles Could have gotten Any bullet holes Where they did Other than From the helicopters Overhead So my theory on this Is that there was At least one helicopter That was intended To fire And create This hail of gunfire To scare the heck Out of the ATF And the Branch Davidians Make both of them Think they were under fire And that is what started The ATF shooting At everybody And the Branch Davidians Then were shooting In self defense Well if that's the case Linda These ATF people Had to be the stupidest Dummies that ever lived On the face of the earth Now I've been in combat And it's absolutely impossible For a helicopter To be firing down on us And me to think That it's somebody In a trench in front of me That just can't happen So either they were All a part of it And this helicopter Was not meant To scare the ATF But to scare the Davidians Into firing at the ATF And justify what they were doing Or else these guys Have to be the biggest Bunch of dummy What would you call them Sacrificial pawns I think they were actually Because you realize These are not A trained fighting force These aren't SWAT team guys These are not people That ordinarily are Or should be In any kind of a Combat situation And they had a lot of They had a lot of Women out there too You'll notice in the Agents that were there And a lot of young Trainees were there So I think it would be A very simple Thing for them to Not know where the Gunfire was coming from Because you could hear A lot of gunfire In the footage And if you believe Or consider this From the standpoint Of the ATF being used As stooges in this thing That they were not The ones that planned All of this That is a very real Possibility And that's what I believe Has happened Well if that's the truth Are they so stupid That they can't Figure that out And if they're not That stupid And they can figure it out Why are they still With the ATF and the FBI Why aren't they out here Telling the American people What happened I don't know I don't know I have heard from At least one Honest ATF agent Who's been real helpful In obtaining Some of this information But I don't know I don't know The answer to that Unless you know Jobs being what they are And people being so scared For their own security You see this all the time With sheeple I mean people are afraid To speak out again What happened At Mount Carmel For fear that the government Will stick the IRS on them Or they'll lose their job Oh big deal These are the same people That pat their kids On the ass And send them to die In the sands of the Middle East For stupid manipulations Like Desert Storm I don't buy that crap But there's plenty of people That do that I mean there's people That will Look at all the media That was involved in this Rather than expose What happened Because they might Lose their job It's time to take our break folks Don't go away We'll be right back After this very short pause Don't forget ladies and gentlemen Be on the capital steps 9 a.m. 9 a.m. On September 29th 1993 Even if you have to take time off With no pay You've got to be there We must show our numbers We must show that we are together That we are strong And that we mean business Now for those of you Who have not yet called Swiss America Trading Have not taken the steps That you need to take To protect your assets What you've worked for All your life You have a responsibility To yourself And to your family To make sure That in the coming Economic hardships You don't wind up In the ditch So call now 1-800-289-2646 That's 1-800-289-2646 For the first 200 callers You'll receive Harry Figge's report Entitled Tackled the debt Call now 1-800-289-2646 That's 1-800-289-2646 These are the people Who pay for the airtime For the hour of the time And folks You owe them The opportunity To at least explain to you How they can help you Protect your assets In the coming Economic collapse So call now 1-800-289-2646 That's 1-800-289-2646 That's 1-800-289-2646 Mention my name William Cooper Tell them you're a steady Listener to the hour of the time And you'll also receive A free newsletter Entitled Protecting Your Future Call now, 1-800-289-2646. That's 1-800-289-2646. Don't procrastinate by protecting your future. You'll be protecting the future of this program, the hour of the time and freedom for the world. Call now, 1-800-289-2646. That's 1-800-289-2646. You'll be glad that you did. Just in case you don't remember, let me jog your memory. In church they called the Waco compound back in April 93. Seventeen little children, all so helpless and so small. Died a senseless death of gas and flames. Seventeen little children, don't admit you wonder why. Seventeen little children, how could they deserve to die? Maybe we should stop and ask ourselves. We become so blind. Seventeen little children, finally open up your mind. Tell me who are looking for them. Butificar and fear of乾燥. Hey, I've never seen a month's for a week but when I'm here to be. No matter, be sorry to be. Come on, come on. I'm going to turn you down your journey right now. I accept you after leaving Christ. How can you stand for longer now, when you won't answer to your cry? Seventeen children, all for hope and success. Seventeen children, how many names do you call? Later we should start in the hospital. We'll be one so blind. You're putting in the tree in the garden. Find a hope in your life. I wouldn't accept the branch of any names. Only God will pay his hands. You know, and it seems to know what the law is for the world. But we're going to walk the other side. I'm going to walk the other side. You know, I'm going to walk the other side. You know, I'm going to walk the other side. I'm going to walk to work in your life. Here He is. I'll be fav virus at your time. Maybe you should stop them with thunder Now let me ve physical fly. Thank you. We're talking a lot of people here. Well, if that's really the truth, then there's not much hope for this country, is there? I think there's a lot of hope for the country. I've heard from... Well, how can that be when the people who are the big, tough law enforcement people are scared to stand up and tell the truth when they know that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are being flushed down the toilet? Well, I think the Patriots are going to have to come forward and insist on honest government. We just haven't done it. We've been on our deaths watching TV too long. Well, let me guarantee you that out of every 100 big, tough Patriots who swear that they will stand up and defend the Constitution, when the time comes to really do it, you'll be lucky if between five and seven of that hundred actually show up. Well, I hope it's not that dismal, because I certainly hear from a lot of them and the people that have seen this tape. A lot of people say, well, that's it. That's the last straw. I'm not going to be a sheep anymore. I'm going to stand up. I'm going to do something. Because we have murderers and thieves leading this government. We literally do. That's correct. But we have to go back to the Revolutionary War that founded this country and actually separated us from King George and established the United States of America. When it came time to fight, less, understand this, less than 5% of all the people who lived in the colonies actually picked up a gun and went to fight. The rest of them either fled or were solidly on the side of King George, and some of them just didn't give a damn either way. But only less than 5% of the people who made up the colonies who were eligible to fight actually picked up a gun and went and fought against the king. Well, it's interesting. Anyone that has a copy of the Declaration of Independence, everything mentioned in there in the grievance against the king is every bit as good today against the leaders that we have right now running our country. That's correct. Was against the king. It's astounding. Astounding the parallels. That's right. Incidentally, the family histories of many of the very wealthy people who are leading this country now, either in the Senate or in the House of Representatives or in the executive or judicial branch of the government, and even ones who aren't, who are the heads of states, individual states. If you trace their family history, you'll find that most of them, their family was not part of the ones who fought against King George, but actually supported King George. Were you aware of that? No, I wasn't. The Bush family is one of those. Bush? Yeah, absolutely. Bush family? Bush. Bush. Oh, yeah. I know about the Bush connection because he's a cousin to Queen. Uh-huh. Now, Clinton, as I understand it, his father's name was Blythe, and he is in direct family bloodline royalty in England, too. Well, we've got our people working on that. We have some of the best genealogists there are in the Citizens Agency Joint Intelligence, and they are busily working out the genealogy of William Clinton, and we'll let you know what we come up with. Did you notice the story about his nephew being a member of the KKK this week? Yeah. I thought that was it. Well, that's not unusual for Southern families, not unusual at all. Most of the so-called nobility of the South post-Civil War did belong to the Ku Klux Klan, and in the beginning the Ku Klux Klan, they claim, fulfilled a real role in suppressing crime in the post-war South. I don't know how true that is or untrue it is, but that's not unusual. It may be reprehensible, but it's not unusual. Well, I just find the parallel from the Declaration of Independence absolutely amazing. I wish everybody would get a copy of it and just read it through. And maybe we need to find a new one. Hey, Linda, most of the people out there listening don't have a copy of the Constitution, never have had in their life, and if they ever read it at all, they read it in school when they were a kid and didn't understand what the hell they were reading at that time. A good percentage of my audience does have a copy of the Constitution, does read it. They pretty much know what it means. Some of them have it memorized and could argue the constitutional points of law with the best lawyers in the country. But by and large, most of the listening audience and most of the people in this country don't have a copy of the Constitution, don't know what it says, and wouldn't understand it if they did. That's the truth. Yeah. I used to, when I traveled around the country on my lecture tour, I used to ask, and I used to do this until I realized how bad I was embarrassing the audience. I used to ask how many people in the audience had a copy of the Constitution. I had to stop doing that because invariably only two or three people out of several hundred would raise their hand. And I didn't want to shame people in that manner, so I've changed the delivery of making that point. And what happens is people leave my lectures and they go get a copy of the Constitution right away. One of the CAGI members, Carolyn, down in Port Isabel, Texas, set out one day to try to find out how a citizen living in Port Isabel, Texas, would go about getting a copy of the Constitution. And what she discovered was there was not a copy of the Constitution in the entire town, including the library. That is amazing. She finally found one in the office of the local editor of the paper. All right. This booklet that we're publishing, I hope at the end of this week, at the most two weeks, it depends on the printing schedule, has got the Constitution of every state, the militia law of every state. Oh, let's save that, Linda. We don't want to get into that. That's for tomorrow night. Let's go back to the survivors of the Waco massacre. All right. What happened after that first day? After the first day, you know, some of the children came out with the two older women. Mm-hmm. Initially, these two older women, and they're in their late 50s and 60s, were both charged with conspiracy to commit murder. And one of them is legally blind and the other one's handicapped. Mm-hmm. And that was such a faux pas. The government finally threw out the charges against them, but then didn't allow them to leave. I mean, they were still in prison. Who were these two? Pardon me? Who were these two? Annetta Richards and Katherine Matheson. Okay. And Annetta has got thick, thick glasses. She can barely see, you know, in front of her. And they're both very soft-spoken, very nice elderly women. Mm-hmm. And they were initially refused that. They wouldn't let them out of jail, even. They kept them as material witnesses, and then they allowed them to go to a halfway house. And now they've just deported Annetta Richards. And I believe Katherine Matheson is still under house arrest at a local hotel. Now, how is it that witnesses end up being confined in jail? Well, it's an archaic law in the federal law that allows a material witness who presents a threat of flight to be held in jail. But there was never any threat, as far as I'm aware of, that any of these people would flee. This was their home. I mean, they had no intentions of leaving. So we've got people who didn't do anything, didn't commit any crime, aren't charged with any crime, and they're being held as material witness, and they're serving time in jail. That's right. And Bill Jonson, the U.S. attorney down there, is a person pushing that point always. And he has gone to some bizarre lengths to get people kept in jail without bond, including the material witnesses. I know that I looked at several, I've gotten the files on all of these cases while I've been down there, and I've got copies of the indictments and warrants and so forth that read through the files. And on the bond hearings for most of these people, he had no reason, you know, nothing that he could offer to keep them in jail. And so he would offer things like a copy of a newspaper article about Paul Stata, a copy of our announcement for the militia assembly in Waco, and a claim that since some of these people were foreign nationals, they'd leave the country. That's the bogus kind of stuff that they used as a basis to say that these people shouldn't get any bond and that the material witnesses should be held in jail. Uh-huh. Now, why is it that the people stayed in there and didn't come out? There were a lot of offers and deals made that if they would come out, the only one that would be taken into custody would be David Koresh and that he would be given all of his rights and the rest of them would be let go and still nobody came out. Why did the people say that they stayed in there? Well, you just pointed out part of the problem with that. First of all, everybody that came out was arrested. You know, and they were kept from communicating with the people inside the house, but the people inside the house would hear over radio broadcasts that they had been arrested and kept from talking to the press, and the children were put in foster homes and kept from talking to anyone. So they had no idea what was happening to these people other than what they could hear on news broadcasts, and none of it was good. Well, this is the point that I wanted to bring out because these are the points that Rita Riddle made when we interviewed her after she came out on March the 21st, and we interviewed her before the fire, and she made the same claims. I wanted you to say this so I didn't put words in your mouth. But the others confirmed this, that they were promised that they would not be arrested and go to jail if they came out, and that's exactly what happened to them, isn't it? Exactly, and not only that, they've shipped several of them off to different parts of the country, and then when they do that, they take all of their property, including their phone numbers and things that they have to contact people outside. The only way they can contact anyone outside is if they can get to a phone. Some of them have been put in isolation where their phone privileges are cut off and they can't even use the phone. And then when they were moved, even if they could use the phone, they didn't have access to their phone numbers, and you can't dial information from a jail because you have to collect calls everywhere that you call. So basically they're held as political prisoners with no way of communicating with the outside world. Right, so the people who were in the church branch of Davidian had no reason at that point, in fact, they had every reason in the world not to trust what the FBI and the ATF promised them because on every promise that they made, it turned out to be a lie. Absolutely, and another thing that happened, and I remember this was a very big issue on our network, but it was not made a big issue at the press, and I was absolutely appalled that it wasn't. The FBI out one side of its mouth was saying, well, we've made every opportunity available to these people to come out, and yet on at least two occasions, Bob Ricks had said that someone had transgressed or done something that the FBI didn't like, and that anybody that tried to come out a window or a door would be considered a threat to the agents outside, and they'd be shocked, and they actually shot at Steve Snyder. If they didn't shoot that agent, it jumped off the roof that they claimed was a Branch Davidian during the fire, did they? No, and this is the kind of thing, you know, I think that the story that was being presented to the public was a completely different story than what was being given to the Branch Davidians. Hey, Linda, I don't see how these guys can live with themselves. I don't see how they can get up in the morning and look themselves in the mirror. They're the most despicable group of liars and traitors and thieves and every other thing that you can think of that I've ever heard of in my entire life. And where do they find these people, anyway? That was what I was saying. When we saw this happening live on TV, before I even knew everything that we know now from the tape footage of the tank with the setting the fire and so forth, you could see when they were bashing that house, they weren't ventilating it to put in any tear gas. I mean, they weren't making small holes to inject tear gas. They were bashing enormous holes time and time. Again, they used two and three tanks on the same hole. Yeah. They were destroying stairwells inside. They were demolishing the building. And I said, where did they get the guy that's driving that tank? Well, we know that a good percentage of the agents of the FBI, the ATF, the Central Intelligence Agency, and other agencies of the United States government are recruited from Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City, Utah. We know that for a fact. Let's go to the day that the fire occurred. What do these people say about what really happened on that day? That's kind of interesting. It depends on, as I said, I've only talked to a couple of the people that were there, and the stories are inconsistent. One of the people that I've talked to, and I really don't want to name him on the air, and I'll tell you. That's okay. You'll know why in a minute. I very strongly believe he's a British Secret Service agent, and there's actually two people that are British Secret Service agents, and they claim to have survived the fire, and they claim they're also providing some cover stories for some of the things that we can prove the government did, such as, you know, the claim that the Branch Davidians were on the roof setting the fire. The reason the government made that, it was a seat of the pants, cover your butt kind of thing, because one of their agents had been accidentally photographed on the roof. Yeah. And then you'll remember they immediately changed the story and said, oh, somebody coming out said one of the Branch Davidians sent the fire inside. Uh-huh. And then they changed the story yet again to fire was all over set inside because the Branch Davidians wanted to commit suicide. What did the survivors say? Well, there was absolutely, every single one of them said there was no suicide pact, never any talk of suicide ever. That was absolutely ridiculous. And all of these people are not mind-controlled or crazed movies. They're very nice people. Every one of them that I've talked to, you can have an ordinary conversation with them like you would with anybody else, and for the most part, they're calmer and more rational than the average person would be, particularly after this kind of a horror. I mean, all of these people lost, they didn't lose family members, they lost friends, but most of them lost children or a husband or a wife or, you know, a brother or sister somewhere in the fire. Yeah, but what did they say about what happened on that day? The ones that I can determine that were really actually there and survived were in one particular part of the house, which is that end of the house where the trap door was on the left. Uh-huh. And they haven't got much memory of the day of the fire other than jumping out the window, and it was very traumatic for them. And that's one of the key things about this. Were they wearing gas masks? They did wear gas masks earlier in the day, yeah. And so what, they were huddling a corner and they just stayed there until the fire came and they jumped out the window? Is that what they say? Essentially. And they didn't ever see anybody else. That's another common key in this is that the people that were there didn't see any of the other people, which is real strange because there's a hundred people in there. It's not strange when you consider that they were probably all murdered in that underground bunker before the fire even started. I don't think it's strange. Well, it looks to me like a common thread with the survivors is that they were in one particular part of the house that for whatever reason did not get struck by a tank because it's that back left corner of the house behind the trap door. They collapsed that one side of the house, one side of that air, but not that tiny little corner back there. And it was pretty much left alone after the initial attack that collapsed it over the trap door. Now, the one guy that I'm telling you I think is a government agent, I don't put any stock in what he says about what happened on the day of the fire. Do you think he was really in there? No, I don't. And I don't think the other one was either. And the interesting thing is you can see in the film footage of the people that were being taken off on the day of the fire, three of the men are already wearing orange jail jumpsuits. Well, you don't get a jail jumpsuit until you get processed in the jail, you get de-loused, you get a shower and all this, and then you get your jumpsuit. You don't get an orange jumpsuit until after all that happens. These guys have them on as they're being taken away, which indicates to me that they were brought there first from the jail. Well, of course, they had to be. And another thing, I have some film footage of the day that this particular guy, that's a government agent, was actually taken out of the center, and he's easily recognized in the picture in the car that's taking him away, and he claims to survive the fire. So I don't think that the story of some of the people surviving the fire is true. I don't think they were even in the fire. You know, Linda, one thing that comes out of all of this, that even for the small amount of patriots who will come out and fight for our creator-endowed rights and to reestablish the Constitution as the supreme law of land and try to save this nation, if we're up against a force that is apparently as stupid as these people are, who can't lie right and who can't perpetuate the lie, and make it stick and come out with so many different lies to cover up the first lie and the second lie and the third lie that it becomes so obvious that they're lying, and can't even understand that if they're going to bring somebody down there and push them off as having been in the church when burned, right when they're supposed to have been taken captive, not to bring them down there in their jailhouse uniforms, I mean, we just might have more of a chance than I thought after all. We just might win this battle if these people are just as no-brained as these people seem to exhibit. Yeah, but how no-brained are the people that believed all this and didn't even look? Well, they're the sheeple of the world who've been taught all their life not to question authority and to believe whatever they're told, and nothing like this can ever happen in America. And anybody who comes out with the truth must be a raving lunatic conspiracy freak. Hey, these are the same sheeple that exist all over the world. These are the people who refused to believe the stories that people would be taken off to labor camps where they ultimately died in Germany in World War II. And these are the same people that were told to get their suitcase, and they were going to be transferred to another town where they could live, went outside, and were marched down to the railroad station in groups of 200 or 300 by 200 or 300 guards whom they could have overpowered easily. That's what we're talking about. Yeah, it is. And there's still people that have the, even if there's been a few people that have seen the tape, and rather than sit there and digest what they've seen and do something about it, they try to find ways to explain it away. You know why, Linda? It's because if they acknowledge that what they're seeing is true, they now have knowledge of tremendous crimes and treason perpetrated against the American people, and they then become responsible to do something about it. Only you know what? They're cowards. They can't admit it because they can't do anything about it because they're too scared. They could do something about it, and that's the whole point. That's right. How can we tell? This was the problem I had when I found all these things, and I had no motivation, believe me, to have been involved in this, other than I felt like I was pretty much told to get involved in it by my higher power, and I'm not going into that very much. I felt like I had to be involved in it after the Weaver situation. But after I discovered all this stuff, you know, with the cameramen protecting the government by moving away from whenever they did something bad, to the media standing up just regurgitating the lies the feds were telling, to Bob Ricks telling lie after lie after lie. I mean, we've written down every, we've got all the AP and UPI releases, and if you just lay them end to end, there was a lie a day. And the media just stood up there and regurgitated it. After we found all these things, and we found the fire footage and the guys on the roof and the guys with fireproof suits, and the picture was very clear. You know, one of the things you told me, Linda, and I want to bring this out now, in light of the 27 hours on the mystery religion of Babylon, the priests of the God of Fire, you told me that you have some footage, which you're going to send to me, and we're going to make a video on this, or at least attach it to the video that you've already made or something, to get it out to the American people to confirm this. You actually have video footage of these guys with their arms up in the air, actually worshiping the fire. Right, but when I saw it, you see, I didn't know anything about... You didn't know anything about the mystery religion of Babylon, did you? No, I didn't. But when I saw it, that was... And I didn't know it. You know, it wasn't something that I could look at them doing this, and based upon my prior knowledge of the motivations of the people involved, yes, what they were doing, but you would see... You know, I just saw them doing it, and I nudged my husband. I said, this looks like this guy's worshiping the fire. Look at this. He's not a branch Davidian. What's this guy doing? And then we saw a couple more doing the same thing, and later footage, and they're holding their arms up to the fire, just like they're worshiping it, and then... That's exactly what they're doing, Linda. And then... Linda, thank you. We'll be back with Linda Thompson again tomorrow night, folks. That's it. Good night, and God bless every single one of you. Thank you.